Treo Antenna Hack

Place to discuss electrical design, tweaks, etc
johnnytk36
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Post by johnnytk36 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:19 am

I am waiting for a tool to come in to make it easier to build my antennas. I am using 8 gauge copper wire to make the antenna stronger. My problem is that what i using right now doesn't bend the wire straight down. It is kinda curved so i dont know where to start measuring for the length. I am trying different setups to mount it to. I will post a pic when i get home tonight of how i have to antenna and the cable hooked up.

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:11 pm

the antenna technically starts where it leaves the shielding... a bend in the antenna is bad but often cant be helped.
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

nonobeez
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Post by nonobeez » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:57 am

Spy,

Did you ever get that 1900 MHz antenna to M? I was wondering about the results.

Also, I have some questions. You stated earlier that the Treos use a different antenna for GSM and CDMA. You also stated that they use a coil antenna. I assume you took them apart, did you? I would like to get a picture if possible.

Also, the lower the RSSI, the better the signal? I don't think that is right, at least for GSM. I get 12-16 RSSI with a threshold of 6, which shows 4 bars. Then it drops to an RSSi of 2 and I get 0-1 bar,but I still get a signal. Can you straighten it out for me? thanks

I got sidetracked for a bit with my antenna project, but I will fill you in with details later. Keep up the good work!!!

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Shadowmite
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Post by Shadowmite » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:40 pm

You are correct in that with GSM it's the difference between signal to threshold which makes for a better signal. I'll let spy answer the rest.
---
Shadowmite

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:55 am

As for the antenna on the treo, yes, it is a coil to simulate electrically a lenth of wire. I will try to get a pic up.

For GSM, the RSSI is pretty innacurate as a device for measuring signal... What matters is how much threshhold you have. With a GSM phone, as long as your signal strenth (RSSI) is bigger than your noise (threshhold), your phone will work. Your indications seem to be reverse of how i though it worked, but it still makes sense. A threshold of 2DB could stand for a 2DB sig/noise ratio, or a 2DB signal above the noise. I dont use a GSM phone so I havent put in the work to understand the relationships.

I have ran into some holdups on GSM antennas. Although It seems to work well for one guy with GSM 1900 towers, there is another I'm in contact with who needs to use a 850 MHz antenna to get his phone to work. Im not sure what to say for the GSM'ers out there other than get sprint. You gotta find out from your provider what fequency the towers in your area use.
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

bww143
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verizon page

Post by bww143 » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:23 am

FYI - Just thought I would let you know.... I was checking out the Verizon 2.0 antenna page today, and it says it was hacked by Dolan?? I hope I did not miss the instructions. Brian

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:32 pm

hahaha it takes a lot of effort to hack a wiki... That page can be modified by anyone! No Im still trying to finalize the design.
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:27 am

nonobeez wrote:Spy,
You stated earlier that the Treos use a different antenna for GSM and CDMA. You also stated that they use a coil antenna. I assume you took them apart, did you? I would like to get a picture if possible.

I got sidetracked for a bit with my antenna project, but I will fill you in with details later. Keep up the good work!!!
Image
haha I bet you thought that I hadnt actually taken one apart. The picture isnt the best but it does show the coils. This "sticker" is wrapped around the antenna and has conductive traces that act as the antenna. the angles are all mapped out by a computer to find a resonance at the target frequencies. This is a treo 600 CDMA antenna, but I doubt the treo 650 CDMA antenna is much different.

Be sure to let us know what you find out with your GSM antenna, I could use the data.
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

johnnytk36
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Post by johnnytk36 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:43 pm

Ok now that Marching Band is over i have more time to devote to these little projects.

I have been trying a design that lets you change out the copeer wire for different lengths of the wire. I think my wire might be to big. I am using a 8 gauge.

I will let yall know how all my different designs go.

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xephael
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Post by xephael » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:48 pm

spymongoose wrote:...Again I aint got no love for the GSM guys, however Shadowmite included you guys in his program...
Come on, love makes the world go round :P

After going to Ireland with my Sprint Treo, and having to rely on my Blackberry... I dumped CDMA and went with GSM. Maybe it's a better technology, but GSM seems to be a better "open" standard.

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xephael
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Post by xephael » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:09 pm

spymongoose wrote:No, There are different antennas to do different jobs. This is evidenced by "verizonizing" a sprint treo... They just didnt work as well as native verizon treo.
This is just my perspective, but verizon and sprint treo antennas could be identical...with the radio code being the only thing that's different.

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:15 pm

I am starting to agree with you, there seems to be a dual mode CDMA antenna nub on the treos. That said, I dont think that a dual band antenna will work as well as a single band antenna. I am working to try to prove that.

One theory I have about the 6700 and why sprint and verizon have "locked" thier phones is a possible attempt to make thier stock antennas single band rather than support a crappy dual band antenna. I think this because I get little benefit from the spy 2.0 antenna on the 6700. This lack of benefit in testing has stiemied development of the new antenna. It is entirely possible that a sprint 6700 simply wont work on verizon frequencies because it is a sprint only antenna, or so my theory goes. The same could be true of some new verizon phones. This is simply a theory I have been kicking around.
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

bww143
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testing

Post by bww143 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:09 pm

Spy, I have a verizon treo. If you could give me the antenna length info and instructions I could test the antenna on my phone.

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spymongoose
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Post by spymongoose » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:38 am

http://shadowmite.com/wiki/index.php/Bu ... 22_Antenna
The info is in there, a 1/4 h measurement of 3.57 inches. When I had a verizon 600 I had a lot of success with an aftermarket antenna. It looked a bit like this:
Image
Talkabout T900 --> Handspring Visorphone --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 --> Apache PPC 6700 -->Nokia 770
http://www.shadowmite.com http://www.ppc6700users.com

bww143
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questions

Post by bww143 » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:49 am

The leads you are taking about.... Is this the part that is connected to the screw terminal?

When do you start the measurement for the wire? Is it started from where it is screwed into the terminal or the bend in the antenna wire.

At one point I think you said you need extra cable length on the for the 2.0 antenna. How much extra should I leave for the 2.0?

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